Goldfinger

North American Lunar Meteorites

39 posts in this topic

Hi Guys-

To the best of my knowledge, a North American lunar meteorite has yet to be found. Since some martian meteorites have been located in the USA, you would think some lunars would have been located by now.

Since most lunars do not have any metallic iron in them that would cause them to rust- what characteristics would a lunar meteorite have in the field that might distinguish it from a terrestrial stone? Does anyone have an idea what they might look like? No doubt someone has walked by one without recognizing what it was. (my opinion only) :twocents:

Steve

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Morning Steve,

I've spent the last half hour reading about Lunar meteorites. I don't think that I can even take a guess about what one would look like. The only thing that I know about meteorites is what I have read. That does not even qualify me for a guess...I guess.

Dr.Korotov's articles were interesting. Some people think that his responses to "is this a meteorite" are rude. I got a chuckle or two from his remarks.

Bill c

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Hi Bill-

No doubt a lunar meteorite is the "Holy Grail" of the meteorite community in the US. I know it may have been perhaps "a shot in the dark" but if there's a certain characteristic that could help someone identify one, I'd sure like to know what it is. :hmmmmm: I know their just has to be something to help. :shrug: I've read about some accounts of lunars being found in Africa or the Middle East that were identified as lunars on the spot. Why? :shrug:

Dr Randy Korotev can be quite humorous in his responses. No doubt some people were not amused.

Steve

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Hi Bill-

No doubt a lunar meteorite is the "Holy Grail" of the meteorite community in the US. I know it may have been perhaps "a shot in the dark" but if there's a certain characteristic that could help someone identify one, I'd sure like to know what it is. :hmmmmm: I know their just has to be something to help. :shrug: I've read about some accounts of lunars being found in Africa or the Middle East that were identified as lunars on the spot. Why? :shrug:

Dr Randy Korotev can be quite humorous in his responses. No doubt some people were not amused.

Steve

Hi back to you Steve,

Dr. Randy Korotev has a photo of a Lunar in one of his articles. To me it looks no different than a terrestrial. I got his spelling OK now.

I've included two attachments...you probably have seen them. But what the heck. The ebay one I have to say "Lunatic". At least free shipping was included!

12272007.html

Ebay lunatic.pdf

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Hi back to you Steve,

Dr. Randy Korotev has a photo of a Lunar in one of his articles. To me it looks no different than a terrestrial. I got his spelling OK now.

I've included two attachments...you probably have seen them. But what the heck. The ebay one I have to say "Lunatic". At least free shipping was included!

See if this works!

Ebay lunatic.pdf

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Steve there are a number of meteorites that could easily be passed by if one were not lucky or knowledgible...my quess is that one would have to find a relativly fresh lunar with fusion crust and thumb-prints...that would make you pick it up..also,if it were broken or you cut it you might notice the white-ish inclusions and then take it to Mr B or other big-name to opinionate about "it"...

No doubt there are plenty of very low or non-iron metorites being passed by on drylake excursions...

fred

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Hi All

There are no doubt lots of lunar meteorites waiting for discovery. One would think with the proximity earth has to the moon and the multitude of craters visible on the moon that we are constantly pelted by lunar impact ejecta. We probably are ?? I think recognizing them is the main factor and as Fred says fresh fussion crust would be the main indicator. Testing labs expend a lot more capital for testing planetary material more so than other more common material and unless there's serious indications it extraterestrial and possibly planetary those tests won't be done. As far as being able to recognize one at a glance not me ?? Some of the dealers and pro's that handle this stuff daily maybe have the eye !! Thanks for your vote of confidence Fred but I wouldn't trust my eye !! Happy Huntin John B.

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No doubt there are plenty of very low or non-iron metorites being passed by on drylake excursions...

fred

If I was was hunting a dry lake, I would pick EVERYTHING up -non magnetic and all-for further testing and comparisons when I got back home. For something worth perhaps $500.00 a gram and up, I would certainly take my time and go through everything. That extra effort could pay off big time.

Steve

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Steve there are a number of meteorites that could easily be passed by if one were not lucky or knowledgible...my quess is that one would have to find a relativly fresh lunar with fusion crust and thumb-prints...that would make you pick it up..also,if it were broken or you cut it you might notice the white-ish inclusions and then take it to Mr B or other big-name to opinionate about "it"...

No doubt there are plenty of very low or non-iron metorites being passed by on drylake excursions...

fred

That’s for true, signs of ablation a huge plus, I’m guessing that and low attraction to a magnet helped wade through the tons of material from NWA. Can’t really see any additional scientific value to finding in the US vs NWA but from a commercial point of view it could likely be turned into a media frenzy. The resulting free advertising could be worth more than a good size lunar to right business venture.

This list has been the best place (for me) to learn about legal issues involved with meteorite finds. As it stands now, if a lunar was found on BLM land would it belong to the Smithsonian? Not trying to start a debate on rightness or wrongness of BLM policy, just getting some education.

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My guess is the Smithsonian would try to claim it. :twocents: Never mind the fact they could care less about all the rest of the meteorites found before in the past with the exception of the Old Woman. It seems only the ones of significant value, size or rarity are probably the only ones they are interested in...

But there was a couple Martians found in California but maybe they didn't claim those back then since they couldn't prove where it came from... Or perhaps too much time had passed since they were found :twocents:

Steve

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Hi Steve and All

The LA meteorites were played perfectly from the point of fighting over ownership. Bob V the finder claimed he recognized them as meteorites after finding them in a box stored in his garage. He claimed he couldn't remember where he had found them many years earlier. How perfect could it be till someone finds a piece that pairs to it. I have no doubt Bob knows where he found them but he smartly ain't talkin. The presidence set by the old woman is opposite of what government is claiming. The Smithsoniam lost the battle for the meteorite and it was returned to the 2nd party in suit, the BLM. Had the finders remained in the fight they may very well ended up owning it minus helicoptor hauling fees. The 20% policy came from the old woman meteorite since that's what the BLM allowed the Smithsonian to keep. It's since been modified to 20% or 20 grams kept by classifing institution for future study as a fuduciary responsibility. Oddly the forest service and BLM make us criminals if we trade or barter meteorites found on our public lands but it is common for these very trusted public institutions to do just that. It is not uncommon for a lab to trade some of it's stored and archived material for some other find it wishes to study or posses with meteorite dealers. I'm hoping that a challenge to this policy of ownership of public lands finds will come out of a citation. Our government employees are of the opinion they own the land. They own nothing we the people own the land and they are only there trusted to manage it for us. That is until we trade it to china for our debts :whaaaa: . Happy Huntin John B.

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G'Day Everyone

Steve, this might help. Also in regards to metal in lunars, NWA 5000 had some nice pieces

http://www.meteoris.de/luna/

Cheers

Johnno

IMCA # 2125

Hi Johnno-

Thanks for that link. :wubu: Certainly very helpful. Can't believe all the lunars found in Oman, NWA,etc. Gives you an idea how many there are in the states. Someone is going to find a lunar one of these days and I hope it's one of you guys. :thumbsupanim

I knew there was some metal in a few lunars but I don't think they would set a detector off. :twocents: Doesn't look like enough in the NWA 5000 anyway.

Steve

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Hi Steve and All

The LA meteorites were played perfectly from the point of fighting over ownership. Bob V the finder claimed he recognized them as meteorites after finding them in a box stored in his garage. He claimed he couldn't remember where he had found them many years earlier. How perfect could it be till someone finds a piece that pairs to it. I have no doubt Bob knows where he found them but he smartly ain't talkin. The presidence set by the old woman is opposite of what government is claiming. The Smithsoniam lost the battle for the meteorite and it was returned to the 2nd party in suit, the BLM. Had the finders remained in the fight they may very well ended up owning it minus helicoptor hauling fees. The 20% policy came from the old woman meteorite since that's what the BLM allowed the Smithsonian to keep. It's since been modified to 20% or 20 grams kept by classifing institution for future study as a fuduciary responsibility. Oddly the forest service and BLM make us criminals if we trade or barter meteorites found on our public lands but it is common for these very trusted public institutions to do just that. It is not uncommon for a lab to trade some of it's stored and archived material for some other find it wishes to study or posses with meteorite dealers. I'm hoping that a challenge to this policy of ownership of public lands finds will come out of a citation. Our government employees are of the opinion they own the land. They own nothing we the people own the land and they are only there trusted to manage it for us. That is until we trade it to china for our debts :whaaaa: . Happy Huntin John B.

Hi John B-

Thanks for this very enlightening post. :thumbsupanim

By the way- we won't have to trade our land to the Chinese. They will simply take it. :rolleyes:

Steve

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Could this be NA1? Found at Chalk Mountain near Glen Rose Texas. Don't hurt to dream.

post-25083-0-06344300-1297874131_thumb.j

post-25083-0-44103800-1297874156_thumb.j

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Right here. On this forum. I seen em'. North American Lunatics.............................

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But seriously.....................

About 99 percent of the photos of lunar meteorites that I have seen, are cleaned, sliced, and polished, and are completely useless for hunting. Whenever I find a picture of an uncut lunar, I study it closely. Martian meteorites too. There was this learning curve to being able to recognize less-than-ideal, fragmented, dirty, camoflaged, or partially buried meteorites in the field. It takes years to learn. First common chondrites, then others. Later, I was so proud to have made two cold finds of my own. And now, after studying the features of lunar meteorites, I have to learn not to throw, what look like throwin' rocks. Actually, there ARE small, less discernable nuances in appearance, and your gut feeling will still probably tell you "it doesn't look like any of the rocks in this area, put it in your pocket". Hell, if I could borrow a few UNcut lunars, I'd hold a "Lunar Recognition Clinic" for hunters. Lunars WILL be found here in the southwest. It's just a question of when, not if. And when that happens, everyone will look at the photos, and say "even I couldda found thaaat", or "I've been walking past THOSE for years". And then we will have negotiated a newer, more subtle curve. I have a feeling it'll be sooner than we think.

Ben

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Good post Ben. But it's really hard for me to just look at photos of lunars or martians and hope that I might recognize one in the field. :twocents: My only hope is to be able to distinguish between the local terrestrial stones and the odd singular ones that seems out of place. Those would be the ones I keep for further checking. On a dry lake- I would keep just about everything for further checking, esp the non magnetic ones.

By the way- that's a great idea about holding a lunar recognition clinic for prospectors. :whoope: Now if you could only find someone who has a lot of uncut lunars or martians you could borrow. :hmmmmm:

Steve

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It would be nice to have a place/person with a nice sized lunar or a lunar yourself that was uncut or cleaned to study personally for hunting purposes. Same goes for Martians. I know when I went to the Smithsonian I spent way too much time staring at the meteorite exhibit and my wife was getting fairly pissed off, so I made her take a few photos of me posing with them for my own personal stock. I did however take a few high resolution photos to view later, and I save photos off the internet and study them as much as possible but there is only so much you can get from a picture. And my personal collection of Martian and Lunar meteorites on Soldier pay consist of nothing but micros, how the hell am I supposed to study those?! :)

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Steve there are a number of meteorites that could easily be passed by if one were not lucky or knowledgible...my quess is that one would have to find a relativly fresh lunar with fusion crust and thumb-prints...that would make you pick it up..also,if it were broken or you cut it you might notice the white-ish inclusions and then take it to Mr B or other big-name to opinionate about "it"...

No doubt there are plenty of very low or non-iron metorites being passed by on drylake excursions...

fred

Hi Guys-

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever hunted dry lakes with a metal detector or it is pretty much done strictly with a magnet cane or visual means.

Steve

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Hi Steve,

I know that most dry-lake hunters might pooh-pooh the idea of using a metal detector. And even though I have not used a detector myself on drylakes, (made 3 playa finds) on INITIAL hunts of particular lakebeds.........................I AM bringing a detector with me now. Why? Because, being the thorough @#$*&! that I am, I have seen the hard-as-concrete surface of the dry lake after a good downpour, when there is between two, and twelve inches of standing water there. At that time, the hard surface acquires the texture of Dairy Queen "Soft Serve" ice cream, to a depth of three or four inches, allowing it to literally swallow any fifty-to-five-hundred gram stone quite easily. This explains hunters cleaning out a section of lakebed, only to have someone else find decent-sized chunks in the same place three years later using your Met-Bul published coordinates. Though it may only be seasonal, and only in "wet years", water action and frost heaving seem to expose more meteorites to the surface. Yeah, I know most people refuse to believe that they could miss anything larger than a micro-mount on that clean, cleared, anvil of a surface but, hey, those are the same people that tell you don't go anywhere near that place for two weeks after a rain or you'll get your truck freaking stuck, dude. Think about what they're saying.............Duhhhh......................So, If I make a decent-sized find on a drylake, or I'm re-hunting someone's coordinates of a good-sized original find, I'd be stupid not to at least cleanse the immediate area with my machine. Why would I throw away unhunted meteorites, having greater recovery-odds, than new finds somewhere else on the same lakebed.

Okay, I'll put the soapbox back in the closet now,

Ben

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Hi Ben-

The reason I asked is most of the times when I used to go rockhounding, I always took my metal detector with me and used it while searching for agates,etc. And I have made some very interesting finds in the process but nothing spectacular. A dry lake to me, is a little different and that's why I posed the question. But you've convinced me should I ever get a chance to hunt one. Thanks. Just like using a detector in the usual areas, you just never know what lies under the surface, no matter where you hunt.

Steve

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I feel that if the area is not trashy and there is very little chance of a tramp metal target it is worthwile to use the detector. It wont slow you down that much as long as you are not digging a lot of trash. If you are listening to a lot of signals and noise then I would not mess with a detector.

That is just the way I play it.

I am hunting a meteorite that is an "H" chondrite in an area that has zero trash at all. I have not found a piece of it yet but I figure that it will beep a detector and so it gives me a little better search capability should I get near one. I dont dig five targets a day so it really is not slowing me down much, and I might just get a hit on something that I cant see on the surface. It is not a dry lake, but I dont see why the strategy woudl be any different unless the salt drove your machine crazy.

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