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Can I use a "Clear Water" pump for highbanking?

powered sluice bilge

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#1 bmyers54

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 02:44 PM

I just purchased an RDH recirculating 10" wide sluice that came with a 12v 1200 gph bilge pump and it does not put out enough flow to be be very productive so I want to either get a larger 12v pump or gas powered pump. My plans are to pump directly from the water source and not recirculate. I've been looking at a 12v 2200 gph bilge at A&B $92 and a gas powered clear water pump at Harbor Freight 4500 gph on sale for $170. Will a "Clear Water" pump work for highbanking? If not what rating do I need and any ideas on where to get one for a low price? Or should I stick with a larger 12v bilge and what minimum gph would be recommended? The sluice header has a 1" pipe recepticle. I'm new to this so don't leave out any details. My only experience so far is drywashing.

Thanks!

Bruce.

#2 MacGump

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 04:03 PM

Short answer---NO.


I'll leave the details for what you need to the smarter guys here.

#3 xt18000

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:40 AM

Any 1200 gph pump should supply enough water to run that size
Highbanker. If not you have something wrong.
Do not overload it and make sure you have the angle set right
and screen down your material to 1/2 " and you should run fine.
Put screen wire around the pump suction to keep trash out.

#4 bmyers54

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:34 AM

I appreciate the inputs I have received so far. The last input indicated the 1200gph should be adequate which surprised me so maybe I should hold off getting a larger pump until I have field tested this one. When I first hooked this one up at home the flow seemed way to low to be able to push much material down the riffles so I put various size rocks into the header and even a light 1/4" rock barely made it to the bottom. I only had a small bucket of black sand to test it with some traces of gold and a lot of the black sand stayed on top of the riffles which seemed odd but it did catch most all the gold in the top ribbed mat before the riffles so it did the job overall. I also slanted the sluice as much as what seemed reasonable in the stand about 3.5" drop per foot. Aso keep in mind this is a 10" wide sluice, not a narrow mini-highbanker, and the intent is to use it for processing material in the field and not just cleanup at home.

So that said I would still appreciate more inputs as my goal is to process as much material as possible, efficiently, and at a reasonable cost. Not asking too much am I. I really can't justify the higher cost of a full highbanker setup at this time so that's why I chose starting with the powered sluice concept and I have a 100 amp/hour AGM battery already that I can take advantage of. But if it makes more sense to go with something with more flow I'm open to gas powered. So if anyone listening has a similar setup and is happy with it I want to hear all about it :-)

#5 Au Seeker

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:32 PM

Bruce,

Welcome to the forum! :D

I will have to disagree with some of what has been said so far, first let's see if I have found the recirculating sluice you have and the clearwater pump you're looking at.

Is this the sluice you have?

http://stores.rdh-pr...etup/Detail.bok

Is this the pump you're looking at?

http://www.harborfre...86-001b2166c2c0

If yes on both accounts, I think at 10" wide you will only get enough flow with the pump that came with the sluice if you have a good drop to on the sluice as mentioned.

The gas clearwater pump you're looking at will have no problem running that sluice, I have seen a couple of different guys use that same pump to run 2" dredges with a 10" sluicebox, if it will run a dredge it will definitely run that sluice.

The difference in a clearwater pump and a trash pump is that the trash pumps are not built to as tight of tolerances to allow semi-solids to past through the pump, a clearwater pump is built to tighter tolerances and should only be used pumping water that doesn't contain any solids, since a clearwater pump has tighter tolerances it will pump water at a higher PSI than a trash pump and it will be able to lift water higher as well.

See if you can get the supplied pump to work as mentioned by increasing the slope of the sluice and if you still not satisfied then go with your next choice.

Skip
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#6 bmyers54

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 08:28 PM

Skip are Au-some!

Yes that is the sluice I have and the pump I was looking at. If you have seen guys using this same configuration that is the information I was looking for and someday I may like to dredge so it makes sense to invest in a pump I can use down the road. I can use the 1200gph pump at home for cleanup so everything gets used.

As said this is my first attempt at using a pump for prospecting and I do have members of my club that can help me get started but until then I have one more question with the pump. Since it is a clearwater pump what is recommended to use at the suction end for filter? I've seen metal screens in the prospecting shop just for this purpose but will they be adequate for this pump? Or should I add additional filtering? The guy at the shop recommended putting cheesecloth of sorts over the 12V pump so would that be a good idea for the gas pump also or would it be too much restriction and overkill? I'm sure it's a good idea to put the suction end in a bucket also.

#7 bmyers54

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 07:59 AM

Okay I think I answered my own question. I accessed the manual online for the Harbor Freight "1.5" Clear Water Pump with 99cc Gas Engine" and it comes with a separate intake strainer, which I think is the same as a "foot valve"?, so I'll just use that and place the strainer in a bucket in the creek which I think is a common practice to further protect the intake from debris.

If this pump is adequate for dredging that may be my next move and I assume all I would need is a suction nozzle and hoses. Skip mentioned he's seen guys use this setup for a 2" dredge but the pump is only a 1.5" so I assume I should plan on a 1.5" dredge setup. I can start a new topic on that as needed but any inputs more than welcome.

So I think I now have my solution unless anyone else wants to chime in and I appreciate all the help I can get :-)

#8 Hoser John

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 07:59 AM

Thats the difference between plastic el cheapo bilge pumps for boats and pumps made for actually pumping water. Trash pumps have much clearence,but don't tolerate much backpressure to cavitate. Fresh water a little closer tolerances and always use a dredge footvalve with holes no bigger than 1/16". Then my favorites, the good old precision,keene,proline pumps with closer tolerances. 1 caveat though. The dredge mfgrs have been putting out pumps footvalves with 1/2" holes that allow rocks way tooo large for any hi p pump to handle and that of coarse ruins your impeller so you HAVE to buy a new one real fast.They also score and ruin the pump housing and drill holes through your powerjet big time fast. Old school MUCH better. NOT a nice move by any of them to DELEBERATELY engineer in obsolesence :nutty: ---tons a au 2 u 2 _John

#9 El Dorado

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:21 AM

Good choice over the plastic bilge pump. Yes, it should be able to run a 2" dredge just fine. Probably would run stronger with a power jet log but a suction nozzle would be an all around better choice for a such a small dredge. Should also run a highbanker made with your sluice just fine!
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#10 Au Seeker

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 12:53 PM

Bruce,

When using a pump for a dredge there will be a smaller hose coming from the pump (output) to the high pressure connection on either a power jet or a suction nozzle, this high pressure water entering the jet or suction nozzle will create the suction via a venturi (a sizing down of the high pressure input of the jet or suction nozzle) this high pressure water will then enter the jet or nozzle and "suck water into the intake of the nozzle or the end of the jet hose.

The material that you dredge from the stream never enters the pump, only the water going to the high pressure hose goes through the pump, in other words "if" you sucked up a fish using a dredge it would do no harm to the fish, the fish would just ride up the suction hose and exit the sluice and never encounter the pump and I do say "if", fish are fast strong swimmers and you would have a hard time trying to get a fish in your nozzle.

If you have ever seen someone stock fish in a pond or stream, they use the same principal to get the fish from the stock tank into the water via a suction hose.

In shorter terms this pump will work fine for a small maybe up to a 2 1/2" dredge, a 2" will not be a problem for that pump, the size of a dredge is the size of the suction hose, not the size of the pump's output connection.

So you can understand it a little better, check out this Keene's info page on how a suction dredge works.

http://www.keeneeng....golddredge.html

Skip
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#11 bmyers54

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:14 PM

I'm very pleased with the responses I have gotten on this forum and want to thank everyone so far for their inputs!

I have purchased the 1.5" gas powered pump from Harbor Freight and thinking about my next steps. I'm very pleased with the fact I can use it for a dredge down the road but for the first step want to set it up for powered sluicing as originally planned and a good test of how well the pump and sluice will work together. The sluice has a 1" male NPT PVC fitting so maybe leave it for the test run but will have to change it out to a 2" for eventual dredging and use a 1.5" reducer when connected directly to the sluice. I hope there is enough room inside the header for a 2" coupling as it seems to be tight inside there. For dredging looks like I need a 2" nozzle with 1.5" pressure hose fitting and matching hoses. Assume the hoses are the flat discharge hoses? Never dredged before and only seen some You Tube videos of dredging so I'm planning on tagging along on a future club outings to watch some dredging and see how it's done and fine tune what I need. I'll definately keep this forum in mind when I need info.

#12 Hoser John

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 08:11 AM

This is definately the place to be for info as see your in Az-land of the free and NOT in kalif-land of the screwed. Don't matter which way you go plenty of local info and retired type folks just a chompn' at the bit to go play in the sun,mud,blood and chug a beer-tons a au 2 u 2 and a Merry Christmas to one and all-John O :D

#13 wjbell

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:12 PM

Yes, a clean water gas pump will work just fine. I bought one from Harbor Freight and used it all season... and got gold. And the pump works great! PM me for any info on it. (I'm actaully selling the pump, but that's not the reason I responded) The clean water pump I got from HF worked just great.

#14 bmyers54

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 09:50 PM

Here's a dredging question. My pump output fitting is a 1.5" pipe and I'm trying to figure out what size suction nozzle to use. I was looking into 2" nozzles but they have a 1.25" pipe thread for the pressure fitting and the 2.5" nozzles have 1.5" pressure nozzle so should I be looking at 2.5" nozzles? Wouldn't make sense to me to bottleneck down to a 1.25" from the pump 1.5" but I don't know if my 4500gpm pump would be enough flow for a 2.5" nozzle. Are there any specifications for nozzle sizing?

#15 bigrex

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 11:43 PM

Provided you have a screen on the intake hose to eliminate larger debris. It is a good idea if the water is fairly clean, not muddy sludge.
Rex B.

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#16 Hoser John

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 08:04 AM

I picked up one of these off craigslist for $50(brand new ) about a year ago and does pump more than trash pumps. You need rigid hose for better operation and a suction hose no more than 10' long on a 2.5" or just too wimpy.Much better on a 2" or hi-banker. A simple reducer will accomplish what you seek and always do any reducing at the nozzle to keep higher psi/gpm. Your larger hose acts like a reserve supply chamber to supply higher demand times. The elcheapo footvale is way too small for the pump so drill drill and drill out more holes all over the thang or go to a good real footvalbe BUT never more than a 1/'16" hole like days of old as new 1/2" insanity allows rocks in that chew up everything FAST--John ---no BAD equipment--just wrong applications :brows:




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