Possible finds, please help confirm what I think I have found!
Posted 10 June 2012 - 08:13 AM
This one my camera flash makes it look brown but its more black in reality without a flash.
Here is the next one.
Here is the next one.
Here is the next one.
Here is the next.
Here is a possible meteor wrong, notice the red spotting possible iron-ore
Thanks in advance for your time and any replies!
Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:17 PM
I would also like to mention my grandpa has witnessed a fall in this area that landed right in the lake in front of him, and also used to pull meteorites out of the 80 acres of farm land. He has told me about ploughing the field and running into large meteorites sitting right next to small impact holes. I have held the witnessed fall it's pretty big and heavy.
Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:47 PM
A streak test does not yield a pass or fail, just a color.
I am sure you mean a bulk density test, not specific gravity (although the two are similar). I am guessing you will come up with a b.d. about 5.
I'll wager your what your grandpa thought he saw he did not actually see, and what you think is a "witness fall" stone is not a meteorite, either. If you can only see a meteor, it's hundreds of miles away. They enter what is called "dark flight" way up in the atmosphere and are not visible anywhere near the ground.
Posted 10 June 2012 - 04:09 PM
Streak test leaves color (ussually black or brown) if your stone is a meteor wrong. So no color equals pass. Why would you do the streak test if it didn't have a result pass or fail. It would be a waste of time. I have looked at tons of pictures of hematite and magnetite and have not seen any pictures that match my stones. But I have found meteorite pictures that really look identical. Bulk density test time!
I'll wager that there is no way you can be certain that these are not meteorites by picture. Mike are you having a glass half empty day? Go find a big meteorite and put a smile on your face!
Posted 10 June 2012 - 05:33 PM
John L. Cabassi
If you don't like geology then upper Jurassic!
Posted 10 June 2012 - 06:16 PM
Off to test my others!
Posted 10 June 2012 - 09:44 PM
Posted 10 June 2012 - 09:55 PM
How about cutting them with a wet diamond blade tile saw? Are they big enough to cut or should I sand them?
Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:35 PM
Meteorites are cold when they land on the earth, so if your grandpa saw if "sizzling" in the water it's more evidence that it was not a meteorite. You say it looks like meteorites with no fusion crust? A freshly fallen meteorite will have spectacularly fresh fusion crust! Always, 100% of the time. You have to understand that there are literally thousands of stories like your grandfathers and they are never meteorites. Nininger's accounts of how faulty eye witness accounts are best documented in Find a Falling Star.
Your take on streak tests is wrong. They are a scientific test that yield various colors depending on the composition of the stone; they are not a "pass" or "fail" test. "No color" does not mean pass or fail, it means you have a mineral that leaves no streak, or it is harder that the material you are streaking it on. Seeing as you did not grind a window into any of your stones prior to doing the test is another indication of your misunderstanding of this tool. You need to streak the inside of the stone, not it's exterior.
Nickel allergy tests are not accurate enough to be worth anything as far as meteorites are considered.
Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:46 AM
Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:14 AM
Ok I did not know it was a streak from inside test thanks!
My grandpas stone landed in water I think that broke all the fusion crust off with the cool down. I haven't seen the stone for about 18 years but iirc it was greyish with rounds spots all over. I don't know why it was sizzling in the water but I was recently reading about a small meteorite that came to earth at 50 times the regular speed. Maybe that would heat them up? The farmers have all the luck I tell ya! A farmer 6 miles from my home pulled a 2lb iron meteorite out of his field, and another guy about 8 miles away from my home dug up a 138lb iron meteorite with his backhoe.
Thoughts on wet tile saw cutting?
Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:50 AM
Thanks for all the help!
Also these stones do have a black cracked leather looking crust. The crust is falling off on some corners and it's got whitish spots and red spots under the crust looking through a loupe.
Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:27 AM
By the way I won't give up on looking down. I've been collecting shoe boxes full of agates for years. I look for gold and meteorites while I hunt the agates, kind of a bonus.
Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:35 AM
Are meteorites hot or cold when they hit Earth?
Movies always depict meteors as flaming balls of fire, streaking across the sky, and igniting anything they touch after they reach the earth...Is this true? I know that they get hot as they enter our atmosphere, but I also know that it is pretty cold in space, so they start out with quite a chill. Do meteors really get hot enough to keep them flaming all the way to the ground? If a meteor fell at my feet, could I touch it? Would it be cold or hot?
This is a good question, and one that we really don't have a great answer for. It's true that the chunks of rock and/or ice that form meteorites have been travelling through space for at least millions of years, and are therefore very cold when they begin their descent through our atmosphere. As they hit the atmosphere, the outside of the rock begins to heat up (forming the "fusion crust" on the meteorite). The hot outside begins to ablate (or be stripped off), which removes heat. The meteorite falls through the atmosphere in seconds, so for larger rocks, only the outside part has time to be heated. So the question is: When they hit, are they still cold because the hot parts of the rock were removed via ablation, or does the outside manage to get hot enough to burn things?
Unfortunately, there really aren't very many meteors that are picked up directly after they've fallen, so it's hard to do good statistics on which ones are hot or cold. So far it seems that some of each have been found. For example, this FAQ lists reports of meteorites (compiled by Don Blakeslee of Wichita State University) that have been touched soon after they fell, and some people reported that the rock was hot, some that it was warm, and some that there was frost on the outside! These reports are all of a qualitative nature, usually based on the testimony of a small number of people.
We certainly don't have big fires starting when meteorites hit Earth, so although they may singe grass or burn someone, they definitly don't hit the ground as a flaming fireball, the way you sometimes see it depicted in movies.
Many astronomers believe that small rocks hitting the ground should not be hot. In a Science@NASA article about the recent fireball over Pennsylvania, written by Tony Phillips, the planetary scientist Don Yeomans is quoted as saying,"Rocky asteroids are poor conductors of heat. Their central regions remain cool even as the hot outer layers are ablated away... Small rocky meteorites found immediately after landing will not be hot to the touch."
In their meteorite FAQ, the American Meteor Society says "The ablation process, which occurs over the majority of the meteorite's path, is a very efficient heat removal method, and was effectively copied for use during the early manned space flights for re-entry into the atmosphere. During the final free-fall portion of their flight, meteorites undergo very little frictional heating, and probably reach the ground at only slightly above ambient temperature." However, they point out that there really aren't many reports, and those we have are often "prone to hearsay".
So, in summary, we don't really know what temperature meteorites are when they fall. The problem is that there really isn't much quantitative data to base an answer on! However, many astronomers believe that small meteorites should be barely warm, or even cool when they hit the ground. The temperature probably varies depending on the size and composition of the original rock. For example, some materials might ablate more efficiently than others, or conduct the heat better. It's an interesting question, though, and one I wish we had a better answer to!
Very interesting , I'm throwing my bet on my gramps being 100% truthful. Rocks don't just come falling into lakes burning hot from the next town over especially way out in the country.
Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:13 AM
Impossible, sorry, that does not/will not/cannot happen (and I had a feeling that was what you were going to come back with). Post up a picture if you can, and if it's a freshly fallen meteorite just picked up we'll know straight away. But the old "I saw this fall out of the sky and it landed over there and I picked it up" story is always the same and never a meteorite. Nothing against your grandpa, I'm not saying he's lying, just mistaken about what he has.
My grandpas stone landed in water I think that broke all the fusion crust off with the cool down.
You gave no reference from where you pulled that text, but it is well known that meteorites are cold or cool by the time they land. You text says that meteorites "singe grass or burn someone". No they don't, sorry. Space is cold, the upper atmosphere is cold, and meteoroids pass through the atmosphere briefly, heating only the exterior few millimeters.
Here's a good read on the meteorites being hot or cold when landing on earth
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but enthusiam does not make terrestrial rocks turn into meteorites. And all sorts of things come falling out of the sky, or appear to, and have no reasonable explanation so people assume they are meteorites. I can't say what something always is, but I like to think I'm pretty good at noting what it isn't, I've been looking at meteorites for almost 30 years. I had a rock in my collection that I thought was a meteorite for 20 years, only to learn that it wasn't. It sucks, I know, but it is what it is.
How many real meteorites have you seen, held, looked at under a loupe, and studied? I've looked at tens of thousands and still can't tell sometimes, but your rocks clearly appear to be terrestrial, probably with some sort of iron ore in them (goethite or limonite or some other similar compounds). Unfortunately Minnesota is not a very meteorite friendly terrestrial environment, due not only to the historic glaciation mentioned above, but also due to the rain and snowfall that occur every year - meteorites don't last long in wet conditions like that and that's why there's only 8 reported finds for the whole state. Those farmers who believe to have found meteorites in their fields should have a meteorite scientist look at them, the last reported find in MN was back in the 50's and was made by a farmer with a plow. Keep at it, though, hopefully you can make find #9.
Posted 11 June 2012 - 12:53 PM
Edit - clicked your link and that was to the Buzzard Coulee fall. The first find was, indeed, made on a small frozen lake. Google 'tagish lake meteorite' for some even better images of meteorites burrowing into ice.
Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:18 PM
You seem to be doing everything right, sort of. This is good because you are trying to determine what you have.
The bulk density test is a good test for chondrites and not to mis-lead anyone, I've done many Bulk Density tests on several different flavors of chondrites and they ALL fell within the area that they were suppose to be. If anyone disagrees with this, can you tell me exactly which meteorite fails a bulk density test??? I'd really love to see this new science and test it myself!
It is a fundamental test of all meteorites and the newest, Sutter's Mill, certainly was measured as part of the scientific studies. In fact, Adam Hupe was there in one of the labs while it happened and took pictures of the process!
Okay, here is what I "see"... I do not see meteorites in your pictures. But I really want to encourage you to do ALL the tests. We all go through this at some point in time. And worst case it was fun and interesting to do!
Based on your tests as you have stated:
1. Magnetic. Yes
2. Bulk Density ~3.4 Okay for some chondrites. Hematite or magnetite would be over 5 as hinted previously.
3. Streak, do it again in a clean windowed area, not on the surface of the specimen. What color do you get? Note, many people think this is ruling in or ruling out a meteorite. IT's NOT...do not know why that is so hard to understand. It is a mineral test
4. Window, Need to create a window or cut the rock. A diamond saw is fine, use distilled water for coolant and go slow as to not distort or "burn" in the insides. Take a good picture of the window and post it. Do you see metal flecks? Do you see chondrules?
Also, stick to on specimen at a time to not confuse issues.
So, go from there and let's see what we come up with!
In regards to the lake and ice.....ever see a duck stuck in the ice? If a rock sits on ice, it will heat and sink into the ice a bit during a warm day and freeze at night.
The odds of a steaming meteorite...just on the ground... has odds worse than winning the lottery! You stand a better chance of being killed by a deer!
Do you know how cold it is at 30km up in our atmosphere?
Jim WooddellI Buy Gold!
Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:44 PM
Mike I know these rocks very well probably are not meteorites, but my grandpas I'm pretty sure is. He is as straight forward as they come. I think there must be a way for these rocks to come down hot. Maybe if they are going 50 times faster than usual. How long are they in our atmosphere? I went over the story with him on the phone and like you guys said he didn't see it, he heard a splash right in front of him as he was sitting around the back of the house in front of the lake having a fire. He hopped up to see what the heck it was because he heard it cooling down. I will get pictures of that rock, he said he has it still. Why would he keep it? He is a multi-millionaire he could buy one if he wanted one. He also is a super clean type person so to bring a rock in the house to keep for sure wasn't on his to do list, my grandma would have a fit. But hey maybe it was a boeing bomb after all ;) (Joe dirts meteorite)
Thanks to everyone posting in this thread, I'm having a hoot with this this whole deal! I may just have to purchase a space rock to see/feel what they really look like so I don't miss one if I ever run across one.
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